📅 Aug 8, 2016

Re:

From: jeffrey E.

To: Pritzker, Tom

who attends

who attends

📅 Aug 8, 2016

(no subject)

From: Pritzker, Tom

To: jeevacation@gmail.com

You have to be a bit of a wonk to know some of the names, but Nye, Scowcroft and Nick Burns run it (Scowcroft being replaced by Condi). Members include Patraeus, Albright, Slaughter, Donalon (Obama NSA), Hadley (Bush NSA), Sullivan (NSA Hillary), Bill Burns (State #2), Kurt Campbell, Hoss Carwright (#2 It Chiefs), Harman, Ignatius, Sanger, Nunn, Reed, Sawers (MI6), Sherman (iran deal), Work (current #2 DoD). It seems to now be taking on an aura. Looking for a time to come catch up in NY.

You have to be a bit of a wonk to know some of the names, but Nye, Scowcroft and Nick Burns run it (Scowcroft being replaced by Condi). Members include Patraeus, Albright, Slaughter, Donalon (Obama NSA), Hadley (Bush NSA), Sullivan (NSA Hillary), Bill Burns (State #2), Kurt Campbell, Hoss Carwright (#2 It Chiefs), Harman, Ignatius, Sanger, Nunn, Reed, Sawers (MI6), Sherman (iran deal), Work (current #2 DoD). It seems to now be taking on an aura.

Looking for a time to come catch up in NY.

📅 Aug 8, 2016

Re: Re:

From: jeffrey E.

To: Pritzker, Tom

im in santa fe for the next two weeks come visit On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Pritzer, Tom <> wrote: You have to be a bit of a wonk to know some of the names, but Nye, Scowcroft and Nick Burns run it (Scowcroft being replaced by Condi). Members include Patraeus, Albright, Slaughter, Donalon (Obama NSA), Hadley (Bush NSA), Sullivan (NSA Hillary), Bill Burns (State #2), Kurt Campbell, Hoss Carwright (#2 It Chiefs), Harman, Ignatius, Sanger, Nunn, Reed, Sawers (MI6), Sherman (iran deal), Work

im in santa fe for the next two weeks come visit

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 5:28 PM, Pritzer, Tom <> wrote:

You have to be a bit of a wonk to know some of the names, but Nye, Scowcroft and Nick Burns run it (Scowcroft being replaced by Condi). Members include Patraeus, Albright, Slaughter, Donalon (Obama NSA), Hadley (Bush NSA), Sullivan (NSA Hillary), Bill Burns (State #2), Kurt Campbell, Hoss Carwright (#2 It Chiefs), Harman, Ignatius, Sanger, Nunn, Reed, Sawers (MI6), Sherman (iran deal), Work (current #2 DoD). It seems to now be taking on an aura.

Looking for a time to come catch up in NY.

From: Jeffrey E. [mailto:jeevacation@gmail.com
Sent: Monday, August 08, 2016 2:45 PM
To: Pritzker, Tom
Subject: Re:

who attends

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 1:39 PM, Pritzker, Tom <> wrote:

I'm working on a date. Just finished presentation on leadership to grand pooh baahs of Aspen Strategy Group. Take a look at members it will make you laugh. Certainly made me laugh when they asked me to do it.

On Aug 8, 2016, at 9:55 AM, jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com> wrote:

glenn?

📅 Aug 8, 2016

Re:

From: jeffrey E.

To: Ramsey Elkholy

ok On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 7:17 PM, Ramsey Elkholy < > wrote: Can I come by in 5 min w them? Sent from my iPhone On Aug 8, 2016, at 7:12 PM, Jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com> wrote: im home On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 6:41 PM, Ramsey Elkholy < > wrote: Jeffrey are you home? I'm meeting 2 Russian girls in Central Park in a bit, one is cute haven't seen her friend yet. Sent from my iPhone please note The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privile

ok

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 7:17 PM, Ramsey Elkholy < > wrote: Can I come by in 5 min w them?

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 8, 2016, at 7:12 PM, Jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com> wrote:

im home

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 6:41 PM, Ramsey Elkholy < > wrote: Jeffrey are you home? I'm meeting 2 Russian girls in Central Park in a bit, one is cute haven't seen her friend yet.

Sent from my iPhone

please note

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please note

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Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation®gmail.com, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved

EFTA00821610

📅 Aug 9, 2016 REDACTED

(no subject)

From: Unknown

To: jeevacation@gmail.com

Can we see you this eve before you leave?

Can we see you this eve before you leave?

📅 Aug 9, 2016 REDACTED

Re:

From: jeffrey E.

just got up, lovvveed being rubberd On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 8:12 PM, > wrote: Can we see you this eve before you leave? please note The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of JEE Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this

just got up, lovvveed being rubberd

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 8:12 PM, > wrote: Can we see you this eve before you leave?

please note

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of

JEE

Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation®gmail.com, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved

📅 Aug 9, 2016

Re:

From: jeffrey E.

To: Misha Gromov

the very limited role and misnaming of computer "langauge".. noam pointed out that " new york city" is not only a place but a concept". as I was going to visit new york but it burned down many years ago and it is being rebuilt near buffalo " steve agreed that his language was limited to automation. and receiving insructions On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 3:45 AM, Misha Gromov c wrote: FAST! is the superficial service ego gets from ergo for its survival but on the bottom ergo is slow. and what was cho

the very limited role and misnaming of computer "langauge".. noam pointed out that " new york city" is not only a place but a concept". as I was going to visit new york but it burned down many years ago and it is being rebuilt near buffalo " steve agreed that his language was limited to automation. and receiving insructions

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 3:45 AM, Misha Gromov c wrote:

FAST! is the superficial service ego gets from ergo for its survival but on the bottom ergo is slow.

and what was chomsky-wolfram about?

On Mon, 8 Aug 2016 08:18:30 -0400, jeffrey E. wrote:

i understood, the only interesting thing , was quick decision , somehow leads to better decision, . throwing away the tails. . btw, chomsky wolfram was great. . noam sat like a lion about to pounce on his prey. and the pre) began to quiver.

On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 8:15 AM, Misha Gromov c wrote: I looked at this, hastily, maybe. sounds to me like Jazz: too rational to be any close to ergo

On Mon, 8 Aug 2016 05:56:46 -0400, jeffrey E. wrote:

Full text of "Simple Heuristics That Make Us Smari,p.df1FIWy mirror)" gerds work , that postulates some interesting heuristics for ergo

On Sun, Aug 7, 2016 at 4:06 PM, Misha Gromov la wrote: Never met or listened to him, but I am no fan of jazz music anyway. On Thu, 4 Aug 2016 09:57:48 -0400, jeffrey E. wrote: have you met gerd gegenrizer from max planck

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The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of JEE

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Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to jusaratian@gmaillsom, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved

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EFTA00821614

constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of JEE

Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved

EFTA00821615

📅 Aug 9, 2016 FROM EPSTEIN

Re: Einsteins Time Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

From: jeevacation@gmail.com

To: Deepak Chopra

on your way out to calif why dont you stop in santa fe. even for the day. it will be fun my ranch is quite unique On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 4:30 AM, Deepak Chopra <> wrote: Time is an experience and the knowing from that experience based on the rotation of the Earth and its revolution around the sun . Current theories of time based on cosmological concepts of time make assumptions about the universe in human terms i.e. When we say 13.8 billion years ago the universe began with a Big Bang we are

on your way out to calif why dont you stop in santa fe. even for the day. it will be fun my ranch is quite unique

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 4:30 AM, Deepak Chopra <> wrote:

Time is an experience and the knowing from that experience based on the rotation of the Earth and its

revolution around the sun .

Current theories of time based on cosmological concepts of time make assumptions about the universe in human terms i.e. When we say 13.8 billion years ago the universe began with a Big Bang we are speaking in terms of Earth time .

Hence those theories may be flawed and can be used only in terms of metaphor .

Therefore current models can only be understood as metaphors

We have humanized the universe

Deepak Chopra

Wiper Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNAfor Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 9, 2016, at 1:59 AM, Brad Bartholomew <> wrote:

Hello everyone

I am wondering if anyone can see the flaw in this logic.

Time is the speed the Earth rotates.

Humans have known time for a short while and the universe has been around for a long while. Ergo the speed the Earth rotates can't bend the universe.

If someone can spot the flaw then Einstein was right. If there is no flaw in this logic then General Relativity is nonsense.

Kind regards
Brad

On 8 Aug 2016 11:34 p.m., "Kari Ross-Berry" < > wrote:
A little Classical Samkhya, one of the six Hindu Darsanas, might be helpful here in bringing spiritual and scientific knowledge into a better understanding of one another. For those who do not know it it is an enumeration of the manifest and unmanifest cosmology. I've attached a basic chart of the enumeration of

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Samkhya for anyone who cares to reference it.

In Samkhya, consciousness is called Purusa and is unmanifest, which makes it unique and theoretically separate from manifest nature or Prakriti.

Science operates in the realm of Prakriti or manifest nature entirely. On a basic level science measures, proves, and qualifies. It cannot measure, prove, or qualify anything that is unmanifest. This measuring proving and qualifying are attributes of Ahamkara, or ego. Which is one step up the chain from Manas, or mind, known as the computer of the senses. Here it can only make connections and conjectures.

Science also deals in abstractions, which are based almost completely in this part of the mind called Ahamkara. These abstractions could be attributed to Buddhi, which in the chain of Samkhya, is sometimes called intellect or will. It is important here to note that will is not consciousness in the contemplative spiritual traditions of the East. Here a scientist or spiritual seeker may make a projection based on the knowledge gained in manas and qualified in ahamkara towards a revelation of pure consciousness (Puruasa). Mathematicians, physicists, and yogis work tirelessly here using known equations and practices, and sometimes they develop new ones creating new pathways, as they try to 'prove' or 'realize' these projections or explorations. A teacher who has gone beyond this stage is valuable beyond measure in helping others to overcome one's well worn pathways of thought and action towards a rewiring of the individual.

Another qualification that may be helpful to this conversation is the difference between Advaita Vedanta and Dvaita Vedanta. It is clear that there are those that understand this well in this conversation, and others that may not. Please forgive me if this is too elemetary. Advaita Vedanta believes that there is only one consciousness and that this consciousness, for lack of better language, 'underlies' the entire universe and is the same consciousness that dwells within all of us--a unity of consciousness. Dvaita Vedanta, on the other hand, believes in multiple souls and separates an individual consciousness from the ultimate consciousness which goes by many names.

Classical Samkhya as discussed above is Dvaitist. As is Classical Yoga and the Bhakti movements.

Advaita Vedanta also has a form of Samkhya similar to the Classical version discussed here. In this version Purusa and Prakriti are polarities within a whole rather than separate.

I hope this has been helpful to the Western scientists within this conversation. Or, those that may not have the philosophical background our Eastern sages, philosopher's and scientists grew up with. My intent is to offer up a clearer understanding of what is meant by consciousness in the Contemplative Traditions. I welcome any correction or further depth by those with deeper knowledge on this subject.

When I was a girl of four or five my father, who was an abstract mathematician, told me that 2+2 rarely equals 4. He told me that anyone who stated otherwise did not understand mathematics.

In my studies of Vedanta I was given the Kena Upanisad which speaks to seekers of knowledge:

do not think that I know it well. Nor do I think that I do not know it.

He among us who knows it, knows it and he, too, does not know that he does not know it.

To whomever it is not known, to him it is known.

To whomever it is known, he does not know.

It is not understood by those who understand it.

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It is understood by those who do not understand it.

When it is known through every state of cognition, it is rightly known.

for (by such knowledge) one attains life eternal.

Through one's own self one gains power and through wisdom one gains immortality.

If here one knows it, then there is truth, and if here one knows it not, there is great loss.

Hence, seeing (the Real) in all beings, wise men become immortal on departing from this world.'

Kena Upanisad 2:2-5 (Radhakrishnan 1953)

And so the conversations unfolds as seekers of knowledge. Thank you for including me on this chain of inquiry. I am humbled and honored.

Kari Ross-Berry M.A.

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Oliver Manuel < wrote: Seventy-one years ago, the ethical train wreck that now engulf society began when <i>"powers beyond the dreams of scientific fiction"<i> destroyed Hiroshima on <b>6 AUG 1945</b>. Two months later, nations and national academies of sciences were united under the UN on <b>24 OCT 1945</b> to "forever" divide humanity between<b>:

1. A few who would rule the world with "secret knowledge", and

2. The ignorant masses that would forever serve as their slaves.</b>

Thanks to the AGW scandal, the <i>"secret knowledge"<i> dividing humanity now crumbles like the walls of Jerico:

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta wrote: Dear Dr. Deepak Chopra Ji

Namaskar.

You have correctly mentioned that Btfmad Bhagavad-gita explains about the soul (fffman) that "water cannot wet it, fire cannot burn it, weapons cannot shatter it. It is ancient unborn and deathless". Soul is unaffected by these material elements, because, soul is superior energy (marginal energy: tatastha-takti)of Supreme Absolute and matter (water, fire and material weapons) is inferior energy (external energy: bahiraaga talcti) of Supreme Absolute.

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bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ
khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca
ahankara itiyaṁ me
bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā
(Śrīmad Bhagavad-gīta: 7.4)

Translation: Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, and ego are the eight divisions of My illusory potency in this world.

apareyam itas tv anyāṁ
prakṛtim viddhi me parām
jīva-bhātām mahā-bāho
yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat
(Srimad Bhagavad-gīta: 7.5)

Translation: 0 mighty hero, Arjuna, this external, worldly nature is inferior. But know that
superior to this nature is My marginal potency, comprised of the individual souls. Worldly
existence is adopted by the souls for enjoyment through fruitive actions. {The divine world
emanates from My internal potency and the mundane world from My external potency. The
potency of the living beings is known as marginal as they are constitutionally situated midway
between these planes. They may choose to reside either in the mundane plane or the
divine.}

Vedic system advises that one should learn Srimad Bhagavad-gita and the Vedic wisdom under a qualified teacher (Sri Guru) and then only one can realize it as it is. Srimad Bhagavad-gita does not support impersonalist view. Please let us know what you have to say about the several verses in Srimad Bhagavad-gita that clearly highlights the personalist view. For example:

ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā
bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san
prakṛtim svām adhiṣṭhāya
sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā
(Śrīmad Bhagavad-gīta: 4.6)

Translation: Although My eternal form is transcendental to birth and death, and I am the Lord of all beings, I appear within the world in My divine nature, by My sweet will, extending My internal potency.

avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannaṁ
manyante mām abuddhayaḥ
paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto
mamāvyayam anuttamam
(Srimad Bhagavad-gīta: 7.24)

Translation: My eternal superexcellent nature—My form, qualities, activities and pastimes are all transcendental, but unwise persons cannot know the truth, and they think, "The formless Brahman took birth in Vasudeva's cell as an ordinary human being."

śrī-bhagavān uvāca
mayy āveśya mano ye māṁ
nitya-yuktā upāsate
śraddhayā parayopetās

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to me yukta-tama matah
(Srimad Bhagavad-gita: 12.2)

Translation: The Supreme Lord said: In My opinion, those who with faith in the divine are absorbed in thought of Me, t yamasundara, and worship Me constantly with exclusive devotion, are the superior knowers of yoga.

Srimad Bhagavad-gita clearly highlights the personalist view. The verse 2.12 from Slimed Bhagavad-gita completely refutes the idea of singularity of consciousness, where Bhagavan Sri Krishna says to Arjuna: "na tv evahath jatu nasath na tvath neme janadhipah na caiva na bhaviwamah sarve vayam atah param - Never was there a time when you, I or all these kings did not exist, just as we exist in the present, so have we existed in the past, so shall we continue to exist in the future." Therefore, according to the Vedantic view, the plurality of individuals is an eternal fact, and it is confirmed in other Vedic sources (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13 says: nityo nityanatn cetanat cetananam — We are eternal, we are many, and Supreme Absolute is also eternal, but He is one) and by authentic teachers like Sripad Ramanuja Acharya and other Vaieoava Acaryas.

We will be happy to know your views on these conclusions of Slimed Bhagavad-gita.

This is not a chart. The key information is:

* **Sender:** Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.
* **Recipient/Context:** Deepak Chopra
* **Date:** Sunday, 7 August 2016, 12:38 AM
* **Topic:** Conclusions of "Slimed Bhagavad-gita", specifically the nature of the inner self as pure consciousness without form.

The inner self which is pure consciousness has no form .

Having no form it is beyond birth and death ( non local )

Upanishads ( Gita )" Water cannot wet it , fire cannot burn it , weapons cannot shatter it . It is ancient unborn and deathless "

That which has form is in time , a transient pattern of behavior of the formless and subject to birth and death .

Tagore " In this playhouse of infinite forms I caught sight of the formless and so my life was blessed .

Only the formless is real !

Deepak Chopra

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing

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On Aug 6, 2016, at 8:48 PM, Brad Bartholomew > wrote:

Dear Deepak

By "formless consciousness" are we to understand that you have rejected the explanation for consciousness given in the Upanishads which unambiguously attributes consciousness to the operations of the Inner Self.

Kind regards
Brad

On 6 Aug 2016 20:20, "Deepak Chopra" < > wrote: The brain is perceived in the same way as a rock No experience happens in the brain - only electrochemical activity Experience occurs in formless consciousness including the experience of a brain in a cadaver , in surgery or a CTScan

Deepak Chopra

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 6, 2016, at 6:30 PM, Brad Bartholomew <| wrote:



Dear Deepak

I beg to differ on this. The universe is a random mass of EM waves that the human brain interprets. The brain itself is not a random mass of EM waves; it is an electronic computing machine that must run according to a program that generates consciousness. You say that consciousness is the ultimate reality and I say it is the program that codes for consciousness which is the ultimate reality so you see we are not that far apart. In fact henceforth I shall call this program Cosmic Consciousness and we can be in complete agreement.

Kind regards

Brad

On 6 Aug 2016 10:10, "Deepak Chopra" wrote:

Brad

The human brain is also electromagnetic waves and has no privileged position over a galaxy or a piece of rock or a grain of sand or a thought. If you substitute the word consciousness for brain I'm with you . All perpetual objects including brain and Galaxy are modified forms of consciousness

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Deepak Chopra

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 6, 2016, at 9:25 AM, Brad Bartholomew <
wrote:

Dear Deepak

Well I absolutely agree with you as well. The fact is that without a human brain to observe it then the universe would be a mass of electromagnetic waves and would be as invisible as a cell phone network. Ask not whence comes the universe but ask whence comes the human brain. However I don't agree with you that we can never know reality. The only issue is whether the universe is a physical reality or a virtual reality. Given the fact that the universe is a construct of the human brain then it must be a virtual reality as per the Hindu tradition. There's no doubt there's something real happening out there, and its just a matter of locating the data. Kind regards

Brad

On 4 Aug 2016 10:07 p.m., "Deepak Chopra" < > wrote:
Thank you Avatar
What you say makes total sense to me
Warm regards

Deepak Chopra

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 3, 2016, at 8:23 PM, Asingh2384 < > wrote:

Hi Deepak:

Enjoyed your video on Stephen Hawking and other atheists' positions. You have eloquently described the current limitations of the mainstream science to describe the "Ontological Primitive Reality" or existence.

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As you mention, current scientific theories include EM strong and weak nuclear forces and gravity. However, so far science has been unable to develop and integrate the missing physics of anti-gravity or spontaneous expansion of the universe as evidenced by Hubble. Einstein tried to fudge the anti-gravity via a fudge factor — "Cosmological Constant" that he later called his biggest blunder. The recent Supernova observations have pointed to an accelerated expansion (beyond the linear Hubble expansion) in the far-field universe leading to the speculation of Dark (unknown) Energy signifying a strong anti-gravity force in the universe.

What is astonishing that when the physics of the well-known spontaneous decay of particles is integrated into general relativity, it leads to a physical mechanistic theory of anti-gravity that predicts the empirical observations of the universe, explains the dark energy and accelerated expansion of the universe. It also resolves the key paradoxes of QM eliminating the Big Bang singularity and associated incredible phenomena such as the superluminous inflation, multiple universes, and eventual death of a purposeless universe.

What is even more wondrous that such an integrated model of the physics of spontaneity provides a scientific (physical and mathematical) basis for the Zero point state of the "Ontological Primitive Reality" described as the unmanifested (fully dilated mass/energy), Eternity (fully dilated time), Omnipresence (fully dilated space) at the speed of light. (This is synchronous with the experiences of the spiritual masters and sages during deep meditation or Samadhi or Enlightenment (fully dilated Ego)).

What is significant and noteworthy here is that in spite of the fact that such a Zero-point state is immeasurable (unmanifested) and experimentally unverifiable, but it is humanly experience-able, repeatable,and it does follow the same sets of universal laws that predict the empirically observed universe resolving its current paradoxes. It also leads to a scientifically describable universal consciousness or existence synonymous with the "Ontological Primal Reality".

Mainstream science needs to recognize and integrate the missing physics of spontaneity as a possible panacea to curing the current paralysis of science as well as solving the mystery of the observed universe and the experienced consciousness. Such an integrated approach would not only bridge science and spirituality, but also provide purpose and meaning to the universe and life in it.

Best Regards
Avtar Singh, Sc.D.

------Original Message------
From: Deepak Chopra <
To: Online_Sadhu_Sanga
Sent: Tue, Aug 2, 2016 3:24 am
Subject: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

FYI
Re Stephen Hawking and other atheists

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The image is a blank canvas with vertical white lines on a white background. It does not contain a chart or any discernible information to extract.

Deepak Chopra

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 2, 2016, at 7:52 AM, " < > wrote:

Dr. Moskowitz

What do you mean by "enters awareness"?

What do you do with a depressed state? Mood is depressed, the content is irrelevant. And what does intension have to do with a depressed state?

AL MD

On Jul 23, 2016, at 10:22 PM, <redacted> > <redacted>
wrote:

A very interesting and simulating discussion thread regarding consciousness. Perhaps we will all "know" the "answer" the day we take our final breath and transcend from this physical human form to our pure energy form. Perhaps then in that moment we will truly understand this answer. Until then, we continue to explore and engage.

Best,

Deb

Dr. Debra Lindh

"This is a transmission from the company of the Mindful Effect, LLC and Dr. Debra Lindh and may contain information which is privileged, confidential, and protected. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy it and notify us immediately at our telephone number (763) 360-7073."

Original Message Subject: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness From: "Asingh23841 via Sadhu-San a Under the hol association of S d. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." Date: Thu, July 21, 2016 5:04 pm To:

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The image is not a chart. It displays a series of parallel vertical lines. Six thin, light gray lines are on the left, followed by a thicker, bright blue line on the right.

Consciousness (Free Will) is a non-local universal phenomenon not a local or biological (brain) phenomenon. Hence, no local (space-time limited) treatise of consciousness can explain consciousness. It is like trying to explain the elephant by its tail or to explain blue skies via a cloud. It is also like churning water to produce butter.

A computer only generates numbers (bits) not consciousness. A computer has no self, free will or awareness of its own.

Regards

Avtar

—OriginalMessage--
From: Dr. Mike Sosteric
To: online_sadhu_sanga
Sent: Thu, Jul 21, 2016 12:56 pm
Subject: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

Asfor consciousness the fact is that we are relying on consciousness in order to ask the question What is consciousness? And the fact that after all the advancements in computer science we can fundamentally disagree on such a bask question as to whether consciousness is computer generated or not means that ultimately we will never be able to completely answer that question.

No. That's like saying, because "we" are all confused now, "we" will all be confused in the future. What kind of scientist would accept a proposition like that?

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* **From:** [Redacted]
* **Sent:** 21 July 2016 03:11:04
* **To:** [Redacted]
* **Subject:** Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

Dear Soren & Witt

I think most scientists would agree with the propositions of Seth Lloyd in his book Programming the Universe that the universe is a gigantic quantum computer (although why in this age of miniaturization a quantum computer needs to be the size of the universe to generate the universe is another question). If Seth Lloyd is right then everything in this universe is ultimately computer generated.

As for consciousness the fact is that we are relying on consciousness in order to ask the question What is consciousness? And the fact that after all the advancements in computer science we can fundamentally disagree on such a basic question as to whether consciousness is computer generated or not means that ultimately we will never be able to completely answer that question. It is the same for physicists seeking the theory of everything. They are entities within the universe seeking to know everything about the universe. They are ultimately bound by the program that set them up in the first place.This is the way Seth Lloyd explains it: "Cadet showed that the capacity for self-reference leads automatically to paradoxes in logic; the British mathematician Alan Turing showed that self-reference leads to uncomputability in computers."

When a computer processes data the data contains instructions to the computer as to its source. Virtual drives are set up on computers that give the computer

EFTA00821625

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false information as to the source of the data and the computer is none the wiser. This is what t meant when t said that computers are tricked every day as to the source of the data they are processing. Sensory data contains instructions that it is coming from a physical external world, but it ain't necessarily so.

Kind regards

Brad

On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 5:37 AM, Soren Brier

wrote: wrote:

Dear Brad

As a biologist I will deny that we are a computers in the Turing understanding of it. I know we try to imitate living neural networks in the dead computers we have now. It gives a few steps forward but does not really solve the deed problem. You need to define a much more general model for computation that can cover what our machine do as well as living organisms including those without a brain do and how socio-communicative function. As a scientist and philosopher I have to say that we have not agreed on what we are or what the world is constructed from. No doubt the concepts of matter, energy, force and information are depicting true aspects of reality, but when I in neurobiology and psychology was looking for experience and qualia in the nervous system, I — and nobody else - did not find any. There is some insufficiencies on our metaphysical framework. This is why i am interested in the debate with other cultural metaphysics of which Advaita Vedanta is one of the more interesting and I think can be brought into harmony with a new physical understanding build on quantum physics and non-equilibrium thermodynamics systems science and cybemetics and last but no least Peircean semiotics.

Best wishes

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Fra:

Pa vegne of Brad Bartholomew

Sendt: 20. juli 2016 20:09
Til:

Emne: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

EFTA00821626

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Dear Soren

Well you know it is undeniable in my opinion that consciousness is computer generated. It is also undeniable that we are a computer generated entity that is trying to figure out what it is. Ergo we come up against that fundamental principle in computer science that we can't think outside the program. Once you accept the fact that consciousness comes from sensory data then all bets are off as to the actual source of that data. Computers are tricked every day as to the source of the data they are processing.

Kind regards

Brad

On 20 Jul 2016 07:29, "Soren Brier" < wrote: Dear Brad

The knotty question is also: Why looks at the television screen. That question makes your model collapse.

Søren

Fra:

PS vegne of Brad Bartholomew

Sendt: 19. Jul' 2016 19:45

Til:

Emne: Re: (Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

With respect I think consciousness is the easiest thing of all to explain. It is the representation of sensory data on the cortex of the brain that acts as a sophisticated television screen that we can smell taste and touch as well as see and hear. The knotty question is whether that sensory data actually comes from a real physical external world as it appears to do, or whether the source of that data is within us as per the Hindu tradition. My vote is for the latter.

Kind regards
Brad

On 18 Jul 2016 7:13 a.m., "Peter Moskovitz" < 
wrote:

I've no idea how my email address got attached to this conversation and I'm rather certain that my comments will be unwelcome, but, arrogant pedant that I am, you shall have them.

That Dawkins does not understand consciousness comes as no surprise.

Any conversation with Hammeroff is, a priori, non-informative. Consciousness obeys the laws of chaos (randomness does no occur in nature), as do quantum fields, but consciousness has nothing to do with the perturbation of quantum fields in any part of the nervous system. It was a nice try, but a silly one.

Consciousness has no contents. It is about something (intensionality) but it has no contents, nothing that can be observed, measured, recorded or analysed. Therefore, there is no "granularity" of consciousness: qualia do not exist. The hard problem is an illusion. Mysterianism is not so much a lack of knowledge as it is a lack of imagination and insight. As Adam Zeman put it: If your theory admits to the existence of zombies, your theory needs fixed. You have to say that with a Scottish accent.

EFTA00821627

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Consciousness (the feeling of what happens, the remembered present) is the experience of perceptual contents. Do not mistake this definition with "the contents of perceptual experience". They sound alike, but the word order changes the meaning completely. Perceptual contents are the neural representation of stimuli, internal or external. Neural representations can be observed (if one's instruments are good enough), measured, recorded and analysed. The experience of the representation cannot, it is subjective, entirely subjective. Experience has no contents. Spirituality is a state of experience but it is not the "contents" of experience. (Which is one reason why the DL has declared that if neuroscience disproves his beliefs, he will search for new beliefs, brave fellow.)

Consciousness is the synchronous oscillation of massively interconnected, multidimensional, recursive circuits, networks and systems throughout the global workspace. What enters awareness probably oscillates at about 40 hz. Oscillation at partial and harmonic frequencies probably effect how the perceptual apparatus represents transduced stimuli, how other perceptual contents enter consciousness and awareness and how contents are retained to enter awareness later, when the stimulus is remote. The theory has no empirical support, though parts of it have been validated. It's not new, and certainly not with me. Theorists and investigators I like include Crick and Koch, Rudolfo Llinas, Wolf Singer, Henry Markram and many others. Certainly not Chalmers, Jackson, Nagel, McGinn, Hammeroff and Penrose, etc.

Sorry, I warn most people that they shouldn't "get me started".

I promise I'll send no more.

PM

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The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of JEE

Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation®gmail.com, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved

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📅 Aug 9, 2016

Re: Einsteins Time Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

From: jeffrey E.

To: Deepak Chopra

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_Foo_Camp WE will do Sci Woo if you had to curate 20 of the best on your team. .... who? , science needs repeatable experiments. and breakthroughs , I beilve without the use of the new tools., progress is unlikely. . tools. ? drugs. ? I doubt it.. fmri, not useful so far. . mathematics. , maybe, but statistics seems more likely.. why does the iq average not change over decades. the distribution of talent follows the distribution of wealth. for some very stra

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_Foo_Camp WE will do Sci Woo

if you had to curate 20 of the best on your team. .... who? , science needs repeatable experiments. and breakthroughs , I beilve without the use of the new tools., progress is unlikely. . tools. ? drugs. ? I doubt it.. fmri, not useful so far. . mathematics. , maybe, but statistics seems more likely.. why does the iq average not change over decades. the distribution of talent follows the distribution of wealth. for some very strange reason,

I ask that you look up Zipfs. law. it describes many many natural phenomenon, but with ZERO explanation. it is as mysterious as conciousness. but more easiily explored.

📅 Aug 9, 2016 REDACTED

Re:

From: jeffrey E.

you can tell her we can pay the sept rent On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:20 AM, > wrote: replied needs to stay there till the beginning of October (cause of the apartment contract), then would love to come to NY. The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of please note The information contained in this communication is confidential, may

you can tell her we can pay the sept rent

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 7:20 AM, > wrote:

replied needs to stay there till the beginning of October (cause of the apartment contract), then would love to come to NY.

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of

please note

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of JEE

Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation®gmail.com, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved

📅 Aug 9, 2016

(no subject)

From: jeffrey E.

To: haakon gundersen

lets try to set a date for your return to new york please note The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of JEE Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail

lets try to set a date for your return to new york

please note

The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of JEE

Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation®gmail.com, and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved

📅 Aug 9, 2016

Re: Einsteins Time Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

From: jeffrey E.

To: Deepak Chopra

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_Foo_Camp WE will do Sci Woo if you had to curate 20 of the best on your team. .... who? , science needs repeatable experiments. and breakthroughs , I beilve without the use of the new tools., progress is unlikely. . tools. ? drugs. ? I doubt it.. fmri, not useful so far. . mathematics. , maybe, but statistics seems more likely.. why does the iq average not change over decades. the distribution of talent follows the distribution of wealth. for some very stra

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_Foo_Camp WE will do Sci Woo

if you had to curate 20 of the best on your team. .... who? , science needs repeatable experiments. and breakthroughs , I beilve without the use of the new tools., progress is unlikely. . tools. ? drugs. ? I doubt it.. fmri, not useful so far. . mathematics. , maybe, but statistics seems more likely.. why does the iq average not change over decades. the distribution of talent follows the distribution of wealth. for some very strange reason,

I ask that you look up Zipfs. law. it describes many many natural phenomenon, but with ZERO explanation. it is as mysterious as conciousness. but more easiily explored.

📅 Aug 9, 2016

Re: Einsteins Time Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

From: Deepak Chopra

To: jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com>

I notice Nature Publishing group is involved . V interesting What you want to organize is something even more unique . What do you think of a conference around Where do ideas come from ? How is a thought produced ? What is the source of imagination ? How do we experience the physical world ? Is the universe physical ? What is the universe made of? This way everyone - scientists and philosophers and others can be involved . I have an annual conference called Sages and Scientists annual

I notice Nature Publishing group is involved .

V interesting

What you want to organize is something even more unique .

What do you think of a conference around

Where do ideas come from ?

How is a thought produced ?

What is the source of imagination ?

How do we experience the physical world ?

Is the universe physical ?

What is the universe made of?

This way everyone - scientists and philosophers and others can be involved .

I have an annual conference called Sages and Scientists annually , but it's not at the level you're thinking . I have invited skeptics and academics including Krauss and Dawkins and Cox etc . They have never accepted .

We lose money so this may be the last year .

Can we think about this with a tantalizing title

Perhaps in Santa Fe !

Deepak Chopra

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNAfor Optimum Health and Wellbeing

📅 Aug 9, 2016

Re: Einsteins Time Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

From: Deepak Chopra

To: jeffrey E.

In sure the ranch is unique - like everything about you ! Let me check after my office opens this morning in California . I will get back to you today How long are you there ? Thanks for inviting me ! Deepak Chopra Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNAfor Optimum Health and Wellbeing On Aug 9, 2016, at 6:54 AM, jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com> wrote: on your way out to calif why dont you stop in santa fe. even for the day. it will be fun my ranch is quite unique On Tue, A

In sure the ranch is unique - like everything about you ! Let me check after my office opens this morning in California . I will get back to you today How long are you there ?

Thanks for inviting me !

Deepak Chopra

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNAfor Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 9, 2016, at 6:54 AM, jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com> wrote:

on your way out to calif why dont you stop in santa fe. even for the day. it will be fun my ranch is quite unique

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 4:30 AM, Deepak Chopra > wrote:

Time is an experience and the knowing from that experience based on the rotation of the Earth and its revolution around the sun .

Current theories of time based on cosmological concepts of time make assumptions about the universe in human terms i.e. When we say 13.8 billion years ago the universe began with a Big Bang we are speaking in terms of Earth time .

Hence those theories may be flawed and can be used only in terms of metaphor .

Therefore current models can only be understood as metaphors

We have humanized the universe

Deepak Chopra

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNAfor Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 9, 2016, at 1:59 AM, Brad Bartholomew < wrote:

EFTA00821685

Hello everyone

I am wondering if anyone can see the flaw in this logic.

Time is the speed the Earth rotates.

Humans have known time for a short while and the universe has been around for a long while. Ergo the speed the Earth rotates can't bend the universe.

If someone can spot the flaw then Einstein was right. If there is no flaw in this logic then General Relativity is nonsense.

Kind regards

Brad

On 8 Aug 2016 11:34 p.m., "ICari Ross-Berry" < wrote:

A little Classical Samkhya, one of the six Hindu Darsanas, might be helpful here in bringing spiritual and scientific knowledge into a better understanding of one another. For those who do not know it it is an enumeration of the manifest and unmanifest cosmology. I've attached a basic chart of the enumeration of Samkhya for anyone who cares to reference it.

In Samkhya, consciousness is called Purusa and is unmanifest, which makes it unique and theoretically separate from manifest nature or Prakriti.

Science operates in the realm of Prakriti or manifest nature entirely. On a basic level science measures, proves, and qualifies. It cannot measure, prove, or qualify anything that is unmanifest. This measuring proving and qualifying are attributes of Ahamkara, or ego. Which is one step up the chain from Manas, or mind, known as the computer of the senses. Here it can only make connections and conjectures.

Science also deals in abstractions, which are based almost completely in this part of the mind called Ahamkara. These abstractions could be attributed to Buddhi, which in the chain of Samkhya, is sometimes called intellect or will. It is important here to note that will is not consciousness in the contemplative spiritual traditions of the East. Here a scientist or spiritual seeker may make a projection based on the knowledge gained in manas and qualified in ahamkara towards a revelation of pure consciousness (Puruasa). Mathematicians, physicists, and yogis work tirelessly here using known equations and practices, and sometimes they develop new ones creating new pathways, as they try to 'prove' or 'realize' these projections or explorations. A teacher who has gone beyond this stage is valuable beyond measure in helping others to overcome one's well worn pathways of thought and action towards a rewiring of the individual.

Another qualification that may be helpful to this conversation is the difference between Advaita Vedanta and Dvaita Vedanta. It is clear that there are those that understand this well in this conversation, and others that may not. Please forgive me if this is too elemetary. Advaita Vedanta believes that there is only one consciousness and that this consciousness, for lack of better language, 'underlies' the entire universe and is the same consciousness that dwells within all of us--a unity of consciousness. Dvaita Vedanta, on the other hand, believes in multiple souls and separates an individual consciousness from the ultimate consciousness which goes by many names.

Classical Samkhya as discussed above is Dvaitist. As is Classical Yoga and the Bhakti movements.

Advaita Vedanta also has a form of Samkhya similar to the Classical version discussed here. In this version Purusa and Prakriti are polarities within a whole rather than separate.

I hope this has been helpful to the Western scientists within this conversation. Or, those that may not have the philosophical background our Eastern sages, philosopher's and scientists grew up with. My intent is to

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offer up a clearer understanding of what is meant by consciousness in the Contemplative Traditions. I welcome any correction or further depth by those with deeper knowledge on this subject.

When I was a girl of four or five my father, who was an abstract mathematician, told me that 2+2 rarely equals 4. He told me that anyone who stated otherwise did not understand mathematics.

In my studies of Vedanta I was given the Kena Upanisad which speaks to seekers of knowledge:

'I do not think that I know it well. Nor do I think that I do not know it.

He among us who knows it, knows it and he, too, does not know that he does not know it.

To whomever it is not known, to him it is known.

To whomever it is known, he does not know.

It is not understood by those who understand it.

It is understood by those who do not understand it.

When it is known through every state of cognition, it is rightly known.

for (by such knowledge) one attains life eternal.

Through one's own self one gains power and through wisdom one gains immortality.

If here one knows it, then there is truth, and if here one knows it not, there is great loss.

Hence, seeing (the Real) in all beings, wise men become immortal on departing from this world.'

Kena Upanisad 2:2-5 (Radhakiishnan 1953)

And so the conversations unfolds as seekers of knowledge. Thank you for including me on this chain of inquiry. I am humbled and honored.

Kati Ross-Berry M.A.

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Oliver Manuel > wrote: Seventy-one years ago, the ethical train wreck that now engulf society began when <i>"powers beyond the dreams of scientific fiction"<i> destroyed Hiroshima on <b>6 AUG 1945<b>. Two months later,

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nations and national academies of sciences were united under the UN on <b>24 OCT 19454b> to "forever" divide humanity between<b>:

1. A few who would rule the world with "secret knowledge", and 2. The ignorant masses that would forever serve as their slaves.</b>

Thanks to the AGW scandal, the <i>"secret knowledge"<i> dividing humanity now crumbles like the walls of Jerico:

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta wrote: Dear Dr. Deepak Chopra Ji

Namaskar.

You have correctly mentioned that Stfmad Bhagavad-gita explains about the soul (atman) that "water cannot wet it, fire cannot burn it, weapons cannot shatter it. It is ancient unborn and deathless". Soul is unaffected by these material elements, because, soul is superior energy (marginal energy: tafastha-takti) of Supreme Absolute and matter (water, fire and material weapons) is inferior energy (extemal energy: bahiraaga Sakti) of Supreme Absolute.

bhūmir āpo 'nalo vayuḥ
khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca
ahankara itiyaṁ me
bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā
(Śrīmad Bhagavad-gīta: 7.4)

Translation: Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, and ego are the eight divisions of My illusory potency in this world.

apareyam itas tv anyāṁ
prakṛtim viddhi me parām
jīva-bhātām mahā-bāho
yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat
(Srimad Bhagavad-gīta: 7.5)

Translation: O mighty hero, Arjuna, this external, worldly nature is inferior. But know that superior to this nature is My marginal potency, comprised of the individual souls. Worldly existence is adopted by the souls for enjoyment through fruitive actions. (The divine world emanates from My internal potency and the mundane world from My extemal potency. The potency of the living beings is known as marginal as they are constitutionally situated midway between these planes. They may choose to reside either in the mundane plane or the divine.)

Vedic system advises that one should learn trimad Bhagavad-gita and the Vedic wisdom under a qualified teacher (Sri Guru) and then only one can realize it as it is. Srimad Bhagavad-gita does not support impersonalist view. Please let us know what you have to say about the several verses in Slimed Bhagavad-gita that clearly highlights the personalist view. For example:

ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā
bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san

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prakṛtim svām adhiṣṭhāya
sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā
(Śrīmad Bhagavad-gīta: 4.6)

Translation: Although My eternal form is transcendental to birth and death, and I am the Lord of all beings, I appear within the world in My divine nature, by My sweet will, extending My internal potency.

avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannaṁ
manyante mām abuddhayaḥ
paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto
mamāvyayam anuttamam
(Śrīmad Bhagavad-gīta: 7.24)

Translation: My eternal superexcellent nature—My form, qualities, activities and pastimes are all transcendental, but unwise persons cannot know the truth, and they think, "The formless Brahman took birth in Vasudeva's cell as an ordinary human being."

śrī-bhagavān uvāca
mayy āveśya mano ye māṁ
nitya-yuktā upāsate
śraddhayā parayopetās
te me yukta-tamā matāḥ
(Śrīmad Bhagavad-gīta: 12.2)

Translation: The Supreme Lord said: In My opinion, those who with faith in the divine are absorbed in thought of Me, ayamasundara, and worship Me constantly with exclusive devotion, are the superior knowers of yoga.

Slimed Bhagavad-gita clearly highlights the personalist view. The verse 2.12 from Slimed Bhagavad-gita completely refutes the idea of singularity of consciousness, where Bhagavan Sri Krishna says to Arjuna: "na tv evahath jatu nasath na tvath neme janadhipah na caiva na bhavisyamah sarve vayam atah param - Never was there a time when you, I or all these kings did not exist, just as we exist in the present, so have we existed in the past, so shall we continue to exist in the future." Therefore, according to the Vedantic view, the plurality of individuals is an eternal fact, and it is confirmed in other Vedic sources (Katha Upani$ad 2.2.13 says: nityo nityanarh cetanaa cetananam — We are eternal, we are many, and Supreme Absolute is also eternal, but He is one) and by authentic teachers like Sripad Ramanuja Acharya and other Vaisoava Acaryas.

We will be happy to know your views on these conclusions of Slimed Bhagavad-gita.

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On Sunday, 7 August 2016 12:38 AM, Deepak Chopra < > wrote:

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The inner self which is pure consciousness has no form .

Having no form it is beyond birth and death ( non local )

Upanishads ( Gita )" Water cannot wet it , fire cannot burn it , weapons cannot shatter it . It is ancient unborn and deathless "

That which has form is in time , a transient pattern of behavior of the formless and subject to birth and death .

Tagore " In this playhouse of infinite forms I caught sight of the formless and so my life was blessed .

Only the formless is real !

Deepak Chopra

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 6, 2016, at 8:48 PM, Brad Bartholomew < > wrote:

Dear Deepak

By "formless consciousness" are we to understand that you have rejected the explanation for consciousness given in the Upanishads which unambiguously attributes consciousness to the operations of the Inner Self.

Kind regards

Brad

On 6 Aug 2016 20:20, "Deepak Chopra" wrote:

The brain is perceived in the same way as a rock

No experience happens in the brain - only electrochemical activity

Experience occurs in formless consciousness including the experience of a brain in a cadaver , in surgery or a CTScan

Deepak Chopra

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 6, 2016, at 6:30 PM, Brad Bartholomew <

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wrote:

Dear Deepak

I beg to differ on this. The universe is a random mass of EM waves that the human brain interprets. The brain itself is not a random mass of EM waves; it is an electronic computing machine that must run according to a program that generates consciousness. You say that consciousness is the ultimate reality and I say it is the program that codes for consciousness which is the ultimate reality so you see we are not that far apart. In fact henceforth I shall call this program Cosmic Consciousness and we can be in complete agreement. Kind regards

Brad

On 6 Aug 2016 10:10, "Deepak Chopra" < > wrote:

Brad

The human brain is also electromagnetic waves and has no privileged position over a galaxy or a piece of rock or a grain of sand or a thought. If you substitute the word consciousness for brain I'm with you . All perpetual objects including brain and Galaxy are modified forms of consciousness

Deepak Chopra

VJ

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 6, 2016, at 9:25 AM, Brad Bartholomew
wrote:

Dear Deepak

Well I absolutely agree with you as well. The fact is that without a human brain to observe it then the universe would be a mass of electromagnetic waves and would be as invisible as a cell phone network. Ask not whence comes the universe but ask whence comes the human brain. However I don't agree with you that we can never know reality. The only issue is whether the universe is a physical reality or a virtual reality. Given the fact that the universe is a construct of the human brain then it must be a virtual reality as per the Hindu tradition. There's no doubt there's something real happening out there, and its just a matter of locating the data. Kind regards

Brad

On 4 Aug 2016 10:07 p.m., "Deepak Chopra" wrote: Thank you Avatar What you say makes total sense to me

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Warm regards

Deepak Chopra

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 3, 2016, at 8:23 PM, Asingh < > wrote:

Hi Deepak:

Enjoyed your video on Stephen Hawking and other atheists' positions. You have eloquently described the current limitations of the mainstream science to describe the "Ontological Primitive Reality" or existence.

As you mention, current scientific theories include EM strong and weak nuclear forces and gravity. However, so far science has been unable to develop and integrate the missing physics of anti-gravity or spontaneous expansion of the universe as evidenced by Hubble. Einstein tried to fudge the anti-gravity via a fudge factor — "Cosmological Constant" that he later called his biggest blunder. The recent Supernova observations have pointed to an accelerated expansion (beyond the linear Hubble expansion) in the far-field universe leading to the speculation of Dark (unknown) Energy signifying a strong anti-gravity force in the universe.

What is astonishing that when the physics of the well-known spontaneous decay of particles is integrated into general relativity, it leads to a physical mechanistic theory of anti-gravity that predicts the empirical observations of the universe, explains the dark energy and accelerated expansion of the universe. It also resolves the key paradoxes of QM eliminating the Big Bang singularity and associated incredible phenomena such as the superluminous inflation, multiple universes, and eventual death of a purposeless universe.

What is even more wondrous that such an integrated model of the physics of spontaneity provides a scientific (physical and mathematical) basis for the Zero point state of the "Ontological Primitive Reality" described as the unmanifested (fully dilated mass/energy), Eternity (fully dilated time), Omnipresence (fully dilated space) at the speed of light. (This is synchronous with the experiences of the spiritual masters and sages during deep meditation or Samadhi or Enlightenment (fully dilated Ego)).

What is significant and noteworthy here is that in spite of the fact that such a Zero-point state is immeasurable (unmanifested) and experimentally unverifiable, but it is humanly experience-able, repeatable,and it does follow the same sets of universal laws that predict the empirically observed universe resolving its current paradoxes. It also leads to a scientifically describable

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This image contains no discernible chart or key information to extract. It appears to be a plain white background with vertical grey lines.

universal consciousness or existence synonymous with the "Ontological Primal Reality".

Mainstream science needs to recognize and integrate the missing physics of spontaneity as a possible panacea to curing the current paralysis of science as well as solving the mystery of the observed universe and the experienced consciousness. Such an integrated approach would not only bridge science and spirituality, but also provide purpose and meaning to the universe and life in it.

The image contains an email.

**Sender:** Deepak Chopra
**Recipient:** Online_Sadhu_Sanga
**Date Sent:** Tuesday, August 2, 2016, 3:24 am
**Subject:** Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness
**FYI:** Re Stephen Hawking and other atheists.
**Sender of email:** Avtar Singh, Sc.D.

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 2, 2016, at 7:52 AM, " [redacted] < [redacted] > wrote:

Dr. Moskowitz

What do you mean by "enters awareness"?

What do you do with a depressed state? Mood is depressed, the content is irrelevant. And what does intension have to do with a depressed state?

AL MD

On Jul 23, 2016, at 10:22 PM, <redacted> wrote:

A very interesting and simulating discussion thread regarding consciousness. Perhaps we will all "know" the "answer" the day we take our final breath and transcend from this physical

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The image is not a chart. It is a blank white canvas with faint vertical gray lines.

human form to our pure energy form. Perhaps then in that moment we will truly understand this answer. Until then, we continue to explore and engage.

Best,

Deb

Dr. Debra Lindh

**This is a transmission from the company of the Mindful Effect, LLC and Dr. Debra Lindh and may contain information which is privileged, confidential, and protected. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy it and notify us immediately at our telephone number (763) 360-7073.**

Original Message
Subject: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness
From: "'Asingh2384' via Sadhu-San a Under the hol association of S d.
B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D."
Da  Date: Thu, July 21, 2016 5:04 pm.
To:

Consciousness (Free Will) is a non-local universal phenomenon not a local or biological (brain) phenomenon. Hence, no local (space-time limited) treatise of consciousness can explain consciousness. It is like trying to explain the elephant by its tail or to explain blue skies via a cloud. It is also like churning water to produce butter.

A computer only generates numbers (bits) not consciousness. A computer has no self, free will or awareness of its own.

Regards 
Avtar

-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Mike Sosteric
To: online_sadhu_sanga
Sent: Thu, Jul 21, 2016 12:00 pm
Subject: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

As for consciousness the fact is that we are relying on consciousness in order to ask the question What is consciousness? And the fact that after all the advancements in computer science we can fundamentally disagree on such a basic question as to whether consciousness is computer generated or not means that ultimately we will never be able to completely answer that question.

No. That's like saying, because "we" are all confused now, "we" will all be confused in the future. What kind of scientist would accept a proposition like that?

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- **From:** [Redacted] on behalf of Brad Bartholomew
- **Sent:** 21 July 2016 03:11:04
- **To:** [Redacted]
- **Subject:** Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

Dear Soren & Witt

I think most scientists would agree with the propositions of Seth Lloyd in his book Programming the Universe that the universe is a gigantic quantum computer (although why in this age of miniaturization a quantum computer needs to be the size of the universe to generate the universe is another question). If Seth Lloyd is right then everything in this universe is ultimately computer generated.

As for consciousness the fact is that we are relying on consciousness in order to ask the question What is consciousness? And the fact that after all the advancements in computer science we can fundamentally disagree on such a basic question as to whether consciousness is computer generated or not means that ultimately we will never be able to completely answer that question. It is the same for physicists seeking the theory of everything. They are entities within the universe seeking to know everything about the universe. They are ultimately bound by the program that set them up in the first place.This is the way Seth Lloyd explains it: "Code' showed that the capacity for self-reference leads automatically to paradoxes in logic; the British mathematician Alan Turing showed that self-reference leads to uncomputability in computers."

When a computer processes data the data contains instructions to the computer as to its source. Virtual drives are set up on computers that give the computer false information as to the source of the data and the computer is none the wiser. This is what I meant when I said that computers are tricked every day as to the source of the data they are processing. Sensory data contains instructions that it is coming from a physical external world, but it ain't necessarily so.

Kind regards
Brad

On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 5:37 AM, Søren Brier< Dear Brad

wrote:

As a biologist I will deny that we are a computers in the Turing understanding of it. I know we try to imitate living neural networks in the dead computers we have now. It gives a few steps forward but does not really solve the deed problem. You need to define a much more general model for computation that can cover what our machine do as well as living organisms including those without a brain do and how socio-communicative function. As a scientist and philosopher I have to say that we have not agreed on what we are or what the world is constructed from. No doubt the concepts of matter, energy, force and information are depicting true aspects of reality, but when I in neurobiology and psychology was looking for experience and qualia in the nervous system, I — and nobody else - did not find any. There is some insufficiencies on our metaphysical framework. This is why i am interested in the debate with other cultural metaphysics of which Advaita Vedanta is one of the more interesting and I think can be brought into harmony with a new physical understanding build on quantum physics and non-equilibrium thermodynamics systems science and cybemetics and last but no least Peircean semiotics.

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Best wishes

Søren Brier

Fra:

På vegne af Brad Bartholomew

Sendt: 20. juli 2016 20:09

Til:

Emne: Re: SV: (Sadhu Sanga) Consciousness

Dear Soren

Well you know it is undeniable in my opinion that consciousness is computer generated. It is also undeniable that we are a computer generated entity that is trying to figure out what it is. Ergo we come up against that fundamental principle in computer science that we can't think outside the program. Once you accept the fact that consciousness comes from sensory data then all bets are off as to the actual source of that data. Computers are tricked every day as to the source of the data they are processing.

Kind regards
Brad

On 20 Jul 2016 07:29, "Soren Brier" wrote: Dear Brad

The knotty question is also: Why looks at the television screen. That question makes your model collapse.

Søren

Fra: 
Pa vegne of Brad Barth°lame

Sendt: 19. iuli 2016 19:45
Til:
Emne: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

With respect I think consciousness is the easiest thing of all to explain. It is the representation of sensory data on the cortex of the brain that acts as a sophisticated television screen that we can smell taste and touch as well as see and hear. The knotty question is whether that sensory data actually comes from a real physical extemal world as it appears to do, or whether the source of that data is within us as per the Hindu tradition. My vote is for the latter.

Kind regards

Brad

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On 18 Jul 2016 7:13 a.m., "Peter Moskovitz" <
wrote:

I've no idea how my email address got attached to this conversation and I'm rather certain that my comments will be unwelcome, but, arrogant pedant that I am, you shall have them.

That Dawkins does not understand consciousness comes as no surprise.

Any conversation with Hammeroff is, a priori, non-informative. Consciousness obeys the laws of chaos (randomness does no occur in nature), as do quantum fields, but consciousness has nothing to do with the perturbation of quantum fields in any part of the nervous system. It was a nice try, but a silly one.

Consciousness has no contents. It is about something (intensionality) but it has no contents, nothing that can be observed, measured, recorded or analysed. Therefore, there is no "granularity" of consciousness: qualia do not exist. The hard problem is an illusion. Mysterianism is not so much a lack of knowledge as it is a lack of imagination and insight. As Adam Zeman put it: If your theory admits to the existence of zombies, your theory needs fixed. You have to say that with a Scottish accent.

Consciousness (the feeling of what happens, the remembered present) is the experience of perceptual contents. Do not mistake this definition with "the contents of perceptual experience". They sound alike, but the word order changes the meaning completely. Perceptual contents are the neural representation of stimuli, internal or external. Neural representations can be observed (if one's instruments are good enough), measured, recorded and analysed. The experience of the representation cannot, it is subjective, entirely subjective. Experience has no contents. Spirituality is a state of experience but it is not the "contents" of experience. (Which is one reason why the DL has declared that if neuroscience disproves his beliefs, he will search for new beliefs, brave fellow.)

Consciousness is the synchronous oscillation of massively interconnected, multidimensional, recursive circuits, networks and systems throughout the global workspace. What enters awareness probably oscillates at about 40 hz. Oscillation at partial and harmonic frequencies probably effect how the perceptual apparatus represents transduced stimuli, how other perceptual contents enter consciousness and awareness and how contents are retained to enter awareness later, when the stimulus is remote. The theory has no empirical support, though parts of it have been validated. It's not new, and certainly not with me. Theorists and investigators I like include Crick and Koch, Rudolfo Llinas, Wolf Singer, Henry Markram and many others. Certainly not Chalmers, Jackson, Nagel, McGinn, Hammeroff and Penrose, etc.

Sorry, I warn most people that they shouldn't "get me started".

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I promise I'll send no more.

PM

Peter A. Moskovitz

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| Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org /harmonizer                                                                                                                                                                                                         |
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| Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science<br />Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org                                                                                                                                                             |
| Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org                                                                                                                                                                                                           |
| Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org /Darwin                                                                                                                                                                                                     |
| Online Classes: http://mahaprabhu.netlsatsanga /about/#instructions                                                                                                                                                                                            |
| Sadhu-Sanga MP3s: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga                                                                                                                                                                                                               |
| Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact                                                                                                                                                                                                                            |
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| Fourth International Conference 'Science and Scientist - 2016'<br />August 26 — 27, 2016, Bangalore University<br />http://scsiscs.org/conference/ scienceandscientist/2016                                                                                    |
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| Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anolles: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/1942<br />0889.2016.1160191                                                                                                                                                                        |
| Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.al<br />s.20160601.03                                                                                                                                                                    |
| Life and consciousness — The Vedantic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/1942<br />0889.2015.1085138                                                                                                                                                              |
| Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org /harmonizer                                                                                                                                                                                                         |
| Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science<br />Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org                                                                                                                                                             |
| Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org                                                                                                                                                                                                           |
| Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org /Darwin                                                                                                                                                                                                     |
| Online Classes: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga /about/#instructions                                                                                                                                                                                            |
| Sadhu-Sanga MP3s: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga                                                                                                                                                                                                               |
| Contact: http:llscsiscs.org/contact                                                                                                                                                                                                                            |

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Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.al s.20160601.03

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Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
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Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin

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Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/1942 0889.2016.1160191

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Life and consciousness - The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/1942
0889.2015.1085138

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Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science
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Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin

Online Classes: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga /about/#instructions

Sadhu-Sanga MP3s: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga

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Fourth International Conference 'Science and Scientist - 2016'
August 26-27, 2016, Bangalore University
http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2016

Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate

Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191

Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03

Life and consciousness - The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138

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Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin

Online Classes: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga/about/#instructions

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📅 Aug 9, 2016

Re: Einsteins Time Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

From: Deepak Chopra

To: jeffrey E.

I will look up Zipfs law There is no explanation for existence ( anything that exists ) nor for awareness of existence ( how we know it exists ) Deepak Chopra Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNAfor Optimum Health and Wellbeing On Aug 9, 2016, at 7:29 AM, jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com> wrote: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science Foo_Camp WE will do Sci Woo if you had to curate 20 of the best on your team. .... who? , science needs repeatable experiments. and breakthro

I will look up Zipfs law

There is no explanation for existence ( anything that exists ) nor for awareness of existence ( how we know it exists )

Deepak Chopra

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNAfor Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 9, 2016, at 7:29 AM, jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com> wrote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science Foo_Camp WE will do Sci Woo

if you had to curate 20 of the best on your team. .... who? , science needs repeatable experiments. and breakthroughs , I beilve without the use of the new tools., progress is unlikely. . tools. ? drugs. ? I doubt it.. fmri, not useful so far. . mathematics. , maybe, but statistics seems more likely.. why does the iq average not change over decades. the distribution of talent follows the distribution of wealth. for some very strange reason,

I ask that you look up Zipfs. law. it describes many many natural phenomenon, but with ZERO explanation. it is as mysterious as conciousness. but more easiily explored.

On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 4:30 AM, Deepak Chopra > wrote:

Time is an experience and the knowing from that experience based on the rotation of the Earth and its revolution around the sun .

Current theories of time based on cosmological concepts of time make assumptions about the universe in human terms i.e. When we say 13.8 billion years ago the universe began with a Big Bang we are speaking in terms of Earth time .

Hence those theories may be flawed and can be used only in terms of metaphor .

Therefore current models can only be understood as metaphors

We have humanized the universe

Deepak Chopra

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing

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On Aug 9, 2016, at 1:59 AM, Brad Bartholomew <> wrote:

Hello everyone

I am wondering if anyone can see the flaw in this logic.

Time is the speed the Earth rotates. Humans have known time for a short while and the universe has been around for a long while. Ergo the speed the Earth rotates can't bend the universe.

If someone can spot the flaw then Einstein was right. If there is no flaw in this logic then General Relativity is nonsense.

Kind regards

Brad

On 8 Aug 2016 11:34 p.m., "ICari Ross-Berry" < > wrote:

A little Classical Samkhya, one of the six Hindu Darsanas, might be helpful here in bringing spiritual and

scientific knowledge into a better understanding of one another. For those who do not know it it is an

enumeration of the manifest and unmanifest cosmology. I've attached a basic chart of the enumeration of

Samkhya for anyone who cares to reference it.

In Samkhya, consciousness is called Purusa and is unmanifest, which makes it unique and theoretically separate from manifest nature or Prakriti.

Science operates in the realm of Prakriti or manifest nature entirely. On a basic level science measures, proves, and qualifies. It cannot measure, prove, or qualify anything that is unmanifest. This measuring proving and qualifying are attributes of Ahamkara, or ego. Which is one step up the chain from Manas, or mind, known as the computer of the senses. Here it can only make connections and conjectures.

Science also deals in abstractions, which are based almost completely in this part of the mind called Ahamkara. These abstractions could be attributed to Buddhi, which in the chain of Samkhya, is sometimes called intellect or will. It is important here to note that will is not consciousness in the contemplative spiritual traditions of the East. Here a scientist or spiritual seeker may make a projection based on the knowledge gained in manas and qualified in ahamkara towards a revelation of pure consciousness (Puruasa). Mathematicians, physicists, and yogis work tirelessly here using known equations and practices, and sometimes they develop new ones creating new pathways, as they try to 'prove' or 'realize' these projections or explorations. A teacher who has gone beyond this stage is valuable beyond measure in helping others to overcome one's well worn pathways of thought and action towards a rewiring of the individual.

Another qualification that may be helpful to this conversation is the difference between Advaita Vedanta and Dvaita Vedanta. It is clear that there are those that understand this well in this conversation, and others that may not. Please forgive me if this is too elemetary. Advaita Vedanta believes that there is only one consciousness and that this consciousness, for lack of better language, 'underlies' the entire universe and is the same consciousness that dwells within all of us--a unity of consciousness. Dvaita Vedanta, on the other hand, believes in multiple souls and separates an individual consciousness from the ultimate consciousness which goes by many names.

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Classical Samkhya as discussed above is Dvaitist. As is Classical Yoga and the Bhakti movements.

Advaita Vedanta also has a form of Samkhya similar to the Classical version discussed here. In this version Purusa and Prakriti are polarities within a whole rather than separate.

I hope this has been helpful to the Western scientists within this conversation. Or, those that may not have the philosophical background our Eastern sages, philosopher's and scientists grew up with. My intent is to offer up a clearer understanding of what is meant by consciousness in the Contemplative Traditions. I welcome any correction or further depth by those with deeper knowledge on this subject.

When I was a girl of four or five my father, who was an abstract mathematician, told me that 2+2 rarely equals 4. He told me that anyone who stated otherwise did not understand mathematics.

In my studies of Vedanta I was given the Kena Upanisad which speaks to seekers of knowledge:

'I do not think that I know it well. Nor do I think that I do not know it.

He among us who knows it, knows it and he, too, does not know that he does not know it.

To whomever it is not known, to him it is known.

To whomever it is known, he does not know.

It is not understood by those who understand it.

It is understood by those who do not understand it.

When it is known through every state of cognition, it is rightly known.

for (by such knowledge) one attains life eternal.

Through one's own self one gains power and through wisdom one gains immortality.

If here one knows it, then there is truth, and if here one knows it not, there is great loss.

Hence, seeing (the Real) in all beings, wise men become immortal on departing from this world.'

Kena Upanisad 2:2-5 (Radhakrishnan 1953)

And so theconversations unfolds as seekers of knowledge. Thank you for including me on this chain of inquiry. I am humbled and honored.

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Kati Ross-Berry M.A.

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 1:45 PM, Oliver Manuel < > wrote: Seventy-one years ago, the ethical train wreck that now engulf society began when <i>"powers beyond the dreams of scientific fiction"<i> destroyed Hiroshima on <b>6 AUG 1945</b>. Two months later, nations and national academies of sciences were united under the UN on <b>24 OCT 1945</b> to "forever" divide humanity between<b>:

1. A few who would rule the world with "secret knowledge", and 2. The ignorant masses that would forever serve as their slaves.</b>

Thanks to the AGW scandal, the <i>"secret knowledge"<i> dividing humanity now crumbles like the walls of Jerico:

On Sat, Aug 6, 2016 at 3:24 PM, Dr. Bhakti Niskama Shanta wrote: Dear Dr. Deepak Chopra Ji

Namaskar.

You have correctly mentioned that Btimad Bhagavad-gita explains about the soul (atman) that "water cannot wet it, fire cannot burn it, weapons cannot shatter it. It is ancient unborn and deathless". Soul is unaffected by these material elements, because, soul is superior energy (marginal energy: tafastha-taktt) of Supreme Absolute and matter (water, fire and material weapons) is inferior energy (extemal energy: bahiraaga Sakti) of Supreme Absolute.

bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ
khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca
ahańkāra itiyaṁ me
bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā
(Śrīmad Bhagavad-gīta: 7.4)

Translation: Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind, intelligence, and ego are the eight divisions of My illusory potency in this world.

apareyam itas tv anyāṁ
prakṛtim viddhi me parām
jīva-bhātām mahā-bāho
yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat
(Srimad Bhagavad-gīta: 7.5)

Translation: O mighty hero, Arjuna, this external, worldly nature is inferior. But know that superior to this nature is My marginal potency, comprised of the individual souls. Worldly existence is adopted by the souls for enjoyment through fruitive actions. {The divine world emanates from My internal potency and the mundane world from My extemal potency. The potency of the living beings is known as marginal as they are constitutionally situated midway between these planes. They may choose to reside either in the mundane plane or the divine.)

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Vedic system advises that one should learn Srimad Bhagavad-gita and the Vedic wisdom under a qualified teacher (Sri Guru) and then only one can realize it as it is. Srimad Bhagavad-gita does not support impersonalist view. Please let us know what you have to say about the several verses in Srimad Bhagavad-gita that clearly highlights the personalist view. For example:

ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā
bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san
prakṛtim svām adhiṣṭhāya
sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā
(Śrīmad Bhagavad-gīta: 4.6)

Translation: Although My eternal form is transcendental to birth and death, and I am the Lord of all beings, I appear within the world in My divine nature, by My sweet will, extending My internal potency.

avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannaṁ
manyante mām abuddhayaḥ
paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto
mamāvyayam anuttamam
(Śrīmad Bhagavad-gīta: 7.24)

Translation: My eternal superexcellent nature—My form, qualities, activities and pastimes are all transcendental, but unwise persons cannot know the truth, and they think, "The formless Brahman took birth in Vasudeva's cell as an ordinary human being."

śrī-bhagavān uvāca
mayy āveśya mano ye māṁ
nitya-yuktā upāsate
śraddhayā parayopetās
te me yukta-tamā matāḥ
(Śrīmad Bhagavad-gīta: 12.2)

Translation: The Supreme Lord said: In My opinion, those who with faith in the divine are absorbed in thought of Me, ayamasundara, and worship Me constantly with exclusive devotion, are the superior knowers of yoga.

Srimad Bhagavad-gita clearly highlights the personalist view. The verse 2.12 from Srimad Bhagavad-gita completely refutes the idea of singularity of consciousness, where Bhagavan Sri Krishna says to Arjuna: "na tv evaharn jatu nasarn na tvarn neme janadhipah na caiva na bhavisyamah sarve vayam atah param — Never was there a time when you, I or all these kings did not exist, just as we exist in the present, so have we existed in the past, so shall we continue to exist in the future." Therefore, according to the Vedantic view, the plurality of individuals is an eternal fact, and it is confirmed in other Vedic sources (Katha Upani$ad 2.2.13 says: nityo nityanath cetanat cetananam — We are eternal, we are many, and Supreme Absolute is also eternal, but He is one) and by authentic teachers like Sripad Ramanuja Acharya and other Vaigtava Acaryas.

We will be happy to know your views on these conclusions of Srimad Bhagavad-gita.

Sincerely,

Bhakti Niskama Shanta, Ph.D.

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On Sunday,7 August 2016 12:38 AM, Deepak Chopra < wrote:

The inner self which is pure consciousness has no form .

Having no form it is beyond birth and death ( non local )

Upanishads ( Gita )" Water cannot wet it , fire cannot burn it , weapons cannot shatter it . It is ancient unborn and deathless "

That which has form is in time , a transient pattern of behavior of the formless and subject to birth and death .

Tagore " In this playhouse of infinite forms I caught sight of the formless and so my life was blessed .

Only the formless is real !

Deepak Chopra

Le.J

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 6, 2016, at 8:48 PM, Brad Bartholomew < > wrote:

Dear Deepak

By "formless consciousness" are we to understand that you have rejected the explanation for consciousness given in the Upanishads which unambiguously attributes consciousness to the operations of the Inner Self.

Kind regards

Brad

On 6 Aug 2016 20:20, "Deepak Chopra" < > wrote:

The brain is perceived in the same way as a rock

No experience happens in the brain - only electrochemical activity

Experience occurs in formless consciousness including the experience of a brain in a cadaver , in surgery or a CTScan

Deepak Chopra

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IsJ

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 6, 2016, at 6:30 PM, Brad Bartholomew
wrote:

Dear Deepak

I beg to differ on this. The universe is a random mass of EM waves that the human brain interprets. The brain itself is not a random mass of EM waves; it is an electronic computing machine that must run according to a program that generates consciousness. You say that consciousness is the ultimate reality and I say it is the program that codes for consciousness which is the ultimate reality so you see we are not that far apart. In fact henceforth I shall call this program Cosmic Consciousness and we can be in complete agreement.

Kind regards

Brad

On 6 Aug 2016 10:10, "Deepak Chopra" < > wrote:

Brad

The human brain is also electromagnetic waves and has no privileged position over a galaxy or a piece of rock or a grain of sand or a thought.

If you substitute the word consciousness for brain I'm with you . All perpetual objects including brain and Galaxy are modified forms of consciousness

Deepak Chopra.

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 6, 2016, at 9:25 AM, Brad Bartholomew <| wrote:

Dear Deepak

Well I absolutely agree with you as well. The fact is that without a human brain to observe it then the universe would be a mass of electromagnetic waves and would be as invisible as a cell phone network. Ask not whence comes the universe but ask whence comes the human brain. However I don't agree with you that we can never know reality. The only issue is whether the universe is a physical reality or a virtual reality. Given the fact that the universe is a construct of the human brain

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The image appears to be a screenshot of a document or email containing text. The text mentions "Hindu tradition," "virtual reality," and the phrase "its just a matter of locating the data." There are vertical grey lines, possibly from a table or grid, but no discernible chart or graph data is present.

then it must be a virtual reality as per the Hindu tradition. There's no doubt there's something real happening out there, and its just a matter of locating the data. Kind regards Brad

On 4 Aug 2016 10:07 p.m., "Deepak Chopra" < > wrote:
Thank you Avatar
What you say makes total sense to me
Warm regards

Deepak Chopra

JJ

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 3, 2016, at 8:23 PM, AsinghW > wrote:

Hi Deepak:

Enjoyed your video on Stephen Hawking and other atheists' positions. You have eloquently described the current limitations of the mainstream science to describe the "Ontological Primitive Reality" or existence.

As you mention, current scientific theories include EM strong and weak nuclear forces and gravity. However, so far science has been unable to develop and integrate the missing physics of anti-gravity or spontaneous expansion of the universe as evidenced by Hubble. Einstein tried to fudge the anti-gravity via a fudge factor — "Cosmological Constant" that he later called his biggest blunder. The recent Supernova observations have pointed to an accelerated expansion (beyond the linear Hubble expansion) in the far-field universe leading to the speculation of Dark (unknown) Energy signifying a strong anti-gravity force in the universe.

What is astonishing that when the physics of the well-known spontaneous decay of particles is integrated into general relativity, it leads to a physical mechanistic theory of anti-gravity that predicts the empirical observations of the universe, explains the dark energy and accelerated expansion of the universe. It also resolves the key paradoxes of QM eliminating the Big Bang singularity and associated incredible phenomena such as the superluminous inflation, multiple universes, and eventual death of a purposeless universe.

What is even more wondrous that such an integrated model of the physics of spontaneity provides a scientific (physical and mathematical) basis for the Zero point state of the "Ontological Primitive Reality" described as the unmanifested (fully dilated mass/energy), Eternity (fully dilated time), Omnipresence (fully dilated space) at the speed of light. (This is synchronous with the experiences

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of the spiritual masters and sages during deep meditation or Samadhi or Enlightenment (fully dilated Ego)).

What is significant and noteworthy here is that in spite of the fact that such a Zero-point state is immeasurable (unmanifested) and experimentally unverifiable, but it is humanly experience-able, repeatable,and it does follow the same sets of universal laws that predict the empirically observed universe resolving its current paradoxes. It also leads to a scientifically describable universal consciousness or existence synonymous with the "Ontological Primal Reality".

Mainstream science needs to recognize and integrate the missing physics'of spontaneity as a possible panacea to curing the current paralysis of science as well as solving the mystery of the observed universe and the experienced consciousness. Such an integrated approach would not only bridge science and spirituality, but also provide purpose and meaning to the universe and life in it.

Best Regards

Avtar Singh Sc.D.

-----Original Message-----
From: Deepak Chopra <
To: Online_Sadhu_Sanga
Sent: Tue, Aug 2, 2016 3:24 am
Subject: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

FYI
Re Stephen Hawking and other atheists

Deepak Chopra

Super Genes: Unlock the Astonishing Power of Your DNA for Optimum Health and Wellbeing

On Aug 2, 2016, at 7:52 AM, " < > wrote:

Dr. Moskowitz

What do you mean by "enters awareness"?

What do you do with a depressed state? Mood is depressed, the content is irrelevant. And what does intension have to do with a depressed state?

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The image appears to be a blank, white canvas with faint vertical gray lines, suggesting it may be a template or a placeholder for a chart or graphic that is not present. There is no data or key information to extract.

AL MD

On Jul 23, 2016, at 10:22 PM,
wrote:

A very interesting and simulating discussion thread regarding consciousness. Perhaps we will all "know" the "answer" the day we take our final breath and transcend from this physical human form to our pure energy form. Perhaps then in that moment we will truly understand this answer. Until then, we continue to explore and engage.

Best,
Deb
Dr. Debra Lindh

"This is a transmission from the company of the Mindful Effect, LLC and Dr. Debra Lindh and may contain information which is privileged, confidential, and protected. If you are not the addressee, note that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this message is prohibited. If you have received this transmission in error, please destroy it and notify us immediately at our telephone number (763) 360-7073."

Original Message Subject: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness From: "'Asingh23841 via Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of S d. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." > Date: Thu, July 21, 2016 5:04 pm To:

Consciousness (Free Will) is a non-local universal phenomenon not a local or biological (brain) phenomenon. Hence, no local (space-time limited) treatise of consciousness can explain consciousness. It is like trying to explain the elephant by its tail or to explain blue skies via a cloud. It is also like chuming water to produce butter.

A computer only generates numbers (bits) not consciousness. A computer has no self, free will or awareness of its own.

Regards
Avtar

-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Mike Sosteric <
To: online_sadhu_sanga
Sent: Thu, Jul 21, 2016 12:56 pm
Subject: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

As for consciousness the fact is that we are relying on consciousness in order to ask the question What is consciousness? And the fact that after all the advancements in computer science we can fundamentally disagree on such a basic question as to whether consciousness is computer generated or not means that ultimately we will never be able to completely answer that question.

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The image is a plain white background with vertical gray lines, resembling a grid or a blank chart without any data. Therefore, there is no data to extract or key information to summarize.

No. That's like saying, because "we" are all confused now, "we" will all be confused in the future. What kind of scientist would accept a proposition like that?

This is an email snippet.

* **Sender:** Anonymous (on behalf of Brad Bartholomew)
* **Sent:** 21 July 2016 03:11:04
* **Recipient:** Anonymous
* **Subject:** Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

Dear Soren & Witt

I think most scientists would agree with the propositions of Seth Lloyd in his book Programming the Universe that the universe is a gigantic quantum computer (although why in this age of miniaturization a quantum computer needs to be the size of the universe to generate the universe is another question). If Seth Lloyd is right then everything in this universe is ultimately computer generated.

As for consciousness the fact is that we are relying on consciousness in order to ask the question What is consciousness? And the fact that after all the advancements in computer science we can fundamentally disagree on such a basic question as to whether consciousness is computer generated or not means that ultimately we will never be able to completely answer that question. It is the same for physicists seeking the theory of everything. They are entities within the universe seeking to know everything about the universe. They are ultimately bound by the program that set them up in the first place.This is the way Seth Lloyd explains it: "Code' showed that the capacity for self-reference leads automatically to paradoxes in logic; the British mathematician Alan Turing showed that self-reference leads to uncomputability in computers."

When a computer processes data the data contains instructions to the computer as to its source. Virtual drives are set up on computers that give the computer false information as to the source of the data and the computer is none the wiser. This is what I meant when I said that computers are tricked every day as to the source of the data they are processing. Sensory data contains instructions that it is coming from a physical external world, but it ain't necessarily so.

Kind regards
Brad

On Thu, Jul 21, 2016 at 5:37 AM, Soren Brier H wrote: Dear Brad

As a biologist I will deny that we are a computers in the Turing understanding of it. I know we try to imitate living neural networks in the dead computers we have now. It gives a few steps forward but does not really solve the deed problem. You need to define a much more general model for computation that can cover what our machine do as well as living organisms including those without a brain do and how socio-communicative function. As a scientist and philosopher I have to say that we have not agreed on what we are or what the

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This image is a blank chart with faint vertical grid lines. It does not contain any data.

world is constructed from. No doubt the concepts of matter, energy, force and information are depicting true aspects of reality, but when I in neurobiology and psychology was looking for experience and qualia in the nervous system, I — and nobody else - did not find any. There is some insufficiencies on our metaphysical framework. This is why i am interested in the debate with other cultural metaphysics of which Advaita Vedanta is one of the more interesting and I think can be brought into harmony with a new physical understanding build on quantum physics and non-equilibrium thermodynamics systems science and cybernetics and last but no least Peircean semiotics.

Best wishes

Søren Brier

Fra:

På vegne af Brad Bartholomew

Sendt: 20. juli 2016 20:09

Til:

Emne: Re: SV: [Sadhu Sanga] Consciousness

Dear Soren

Well you know it is undeniable in my opinion that consciousness is computer generated. It is also undeniable that we are a computer generated entity that is trying to figure out what it is. Ergo we come up against that fundamental principle in computer science that we can't think outside the program. Once you accept the fact that consciousness comes from sensory data then all bets are off as to the actual source of that data. Computers are tricked every day as to the source of the data they are processing.

Kind regards

Brad

On 20 Jul 2016 07:29, "Soren Brier" wrote: Dear Brad

The knotty question is also: Why looks at the television screen. That question makes your model collapse.
Søren

Fra:

Pa vegne af Brad Bartholomew
Sendt: 19. uli 2016 19:45
ill: 
Emne: Re: (Sadhu Sangaj Consciousness

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With respect I think consciousness is the easiest thing of all to explain. It is the representation of sensory data on the cortex of the brain that acts as a sophisticated television screen that we can smell taste and touch as well as see and hear. The knotty question is whether that sensory data actually comes from a real physical external world as it appears to do, or whether the source of that data is within us as per the Hindu tradition. My vote is for the latter. Kind regards

Brad

On 18 Jul 2016 7:13 a.m., "Peter Moskovitz" <
wrote:

I've no idea how my email address got attached to this conversation and I'm rather certain that my comments will be unwelcome, but, arrogant pedant that I am, you shall have them.

That Dawkins does not understand consciousness comes as no surprise.

Any conversation with Hammeroff is, a priori, non-informative. Consciousness obeys the laws of chaos (randomness does no occur in nature), as do quantum fields, but consciousness has nothing to do with the perturbation of quantum fields in any part of the nervous system. It was a nice try, but a silly one.

Consciousness has no contents. It is about something (intensionality) but it has no contents, nothing that can be observed, measured, recorded or analysed. Therefore, there is no "granularity" of consciousness: qualia do not exist. The hard problem is an illusion. Mysterianism is not so much a lack of knowledge as it is a lack of imagination and insight. As Adam Zeman put it: If your theory admits to the existence of zombies, your theory needs fixed. You have to say that with a Scottish accent.

Consciousness (the feeling of what happens, the remembered present) is the experience of perceptual contents. Do not mistake this definition with "the contents of perceptual experience". They sound alike, but the word order changes the meaning completely. Perceptual contents are the neural representation of stimuli, internal or external. Neural representations can be observed (if one's instruments are good enough), measured, recorded and analysed. The experience of the representation cannot, it is subjective, entirely subjective. Experience has no contents. Spirituality is a state of experience but it is not the "contents" of experience. (Which is one reason why the DL has declared that if neuroscience disproves his beliefs, he will search for new beliefs, brave fellow.)

Consciousness is the synchronous oscillation of massively interconnected, multidimensional, recursive circuits, networks and systems throughout the global workspace. What enters awareness probably oscillates at about 40 hz. Oscillation at partial and harmonic frequencies probably effect how the perceptual apparatus represents transduced stimuli, how other perceptual contents enter consciousness and awareness and how contents are retained to enter awareness later, when the stimulus is remote. The theory has no empirical support, though parts of it have been validated. It's not new, and

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**Key Information:**

* **Author:** Peter A. Moskovitz
* **Conference:** Fourth International Conference 'Science and Scientist - 2016'
 * **Dates:** August 26-27, 2016
 * **Location:** Bangalore University
 * **Link:** http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2016
* **Sponsorship/Donations:**
 * **Topic:** Vedanta and Science Dialogue
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 * **Link:** http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191
* **Articles/Topics & Links:**
 * **Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?:** http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.al s.20160601.03
 * **Life and consciousness - The Vedantic view:** http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138
 * **Harmonizer:** http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer
* **Institutions & Links:**
 * **Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science:** Princeton, NJ, USA. http://bviscs.org
 * **Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute:** http://scsiscs.org
 * **Darwin Under Siege:** http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin
* **Online Resources:**
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Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin Online Classes: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga /about/#instructions Sadhu-Sanga MP3s: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga Contact: http://scsiscs.org/contact You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. B.M. Puri Maharaja, Ph.D." group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to To post to this group, send email to Visit this group at | For more options, visit

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Sponsorship and Donations for Vedanta and Science Dialogue:

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Life and consciousness - The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/1942
0889.2015.1085138

Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer

Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org

Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org

Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin

Online Classes: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga /about/#instructions

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Life and consciousness - The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/1942
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Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer

Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org

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Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin

Online Classes: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga /about/#instructions

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Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/1942 0889.2016.1160191

Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.al s.20160601.03

Life and consciousness - The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/1942
0889.2015.1085138

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Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org

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Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin

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Reply to Gustavo Caetano-Anollés: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2016.1160191

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Life and consciousness - The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138

Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer

Bhakti Vedanta Institute of Spiritual Culture & Science Princeton, NJ, USA: http://bviscs.org

Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org

Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin

Online Classes: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga/about/#instructions

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📅 Aug 8, 2016

Re: 350 el brillo

From: Richard Kahn

To: Warwick, Kerry

any updates? thanks Richard Kahn HRRK Associates Inc

any updates?
thanks

Richard Kahn

HRRK Associates Inc

📅 Aug 8, 2016

Re: 350 el brillo

From: Warwick, Kerry

To: Richard Kahn

Nothing new. Agent told me it's still available. It's typically slow in August and in September. Starting to feel the slow down in all areas and price points Although the market overall has been strong this summer Sent from my iPhone

Nothing new. Agent told me it's still available.
It's typically slow in August and in September. Starting to feel the slow down in all areas and price points
Although the market overall has been strong this summer

Sent from my iPhone

📅 Aug 8, 2016

Re: 350 el brillo

From: Richard Kahn

To: Warwick, Kerry

ok thanks yet they never countered our 6250.. Richard Kahn HBRK Associates Inc.

ok
thanks yet they never countered our 6250..

Richard Kahn

HBRK Associates Inc.

📅 Aug 8, 2016

Re: 350 el brillo

From: Warwick, Kerry

To: Richard Kahn

Sorry I didn't respond to this earlier...I didn't see your last email. Tina told me that they did not want to counter the $6.250 because they felt it was still too far apart. I think the initial bid of $6mm was just too low for them. This could be a very stubborn seller that will keep this property on the market for a long time. It was over priced at $11mm so the $500,000 price reduction was necessary. I'm guessing that they want $9mm for this property or maybe even mid $8's. I will keep a cl

Sorry I didn't respond to this earlier...I didn't see your last email.

Tina told me that they did not want to counter the $6.250 because they felt it was still too far apart. I think the initial bid of $6mm was just too low for them. This could be a very stubborn seller that will keep this property on the market for a long time.

It was over priced at $11mm so the $500,000 price reduction was necessary. I'm guessing that they want $9mm for this property or maybe even mid $8's.

I will keep a close eye for any price adjustments and I'll stay in touch with the agent with regard to any other showings or buyers.

On a different subject, a nice 3 bedroom came on the market today at P8 Towers (Richard Steinberg's building). I think you and Lisa wanted to move away from that building but just in case, I'll send to you.

Thanks again.

📅 Aug 9, 2016

Fwd: 350 el brillo

From: Richard Kahn

To: jeffrey E.

should we keep 6250 offer and wait or increase to see if they counter a higher number please advise thanks Richard Kahn HBRK Associates Inc. Begin forwarded message: From: "Warwick, Kerry" < Subject: Re: 350 el brillo Date: August 8, 2016 at 9:09:49 PM EDT To: Richard Kahn Sorry I didn't respond to this earlier...I didn't see your last email. Tina told me that they did not want to counter the $6.250 because they felt it was still too far apart. I think the initial bid of $6mm was just too l

should we keep 6250 offer and wait or increase to see if they counter a higher number please advise thanks

Richard Kahn
HBRK Associates Inc.

Begin forwarded message:

From: "Warwick, Kerry" <
Subject: Re: 350 el brillo
Date: August 8, 2016 at 9:09:49 PM EDT
To: Richard Kahn

Sorry I didn't respond to this earlier...I didn't see your last email.

Tina told me that they did not want to counter the $6.250 because they felt it was still too far apart. I think the initial bid of $6mm was just too low for them. This could be a very stubborn seller that will keep this property on the market for a long time.

It was over priced at $11mm so the $500,000 price reduction was necessary. I'm guessing that they want $9mm for this property or maybe even mid $8's.

I will keep a close eye for any price adjustments and I'll stay in touch with the agent with regard to any other showings or buyers.

On a different subject, a nice 3 bedroom came on the market today at P8 Towers (Richard Steinberg's building). I think you and Lisa wanted to move away from that building but just in case, I'll send to you.

Thanks again.

EFTA00821730

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From: Richard Kahn <

Sent: Monday, August 8, 2016 1:55:06 PM

To: Warwick, Kerry

Subject: Re: 350 el brillo

ok
thanks yet they never countered our 6250..

Richard Kahn

HBRK Associates Inc.

> On Aug 8, 2016, at 10:38 AM, Warwick, Kerry <> wrote:
>
> Nothing new. Agent told me it's still available.
> It's typically slow in August and in September. Starting to feel the slow down in all areas and price points
> Although the market overall has been strong this summer
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>>>

> KERRY WARWICK

EFTA00821731

> This email is for the use of the intended recipient(s) only. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender immediately and then delete it. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not keep, use, disclose, copy or distribute this email without the author's prior permission. We have taken precautions to minimize the risk of transmitting software viruses, but we advise you to carry out your own virus checks on any attachment to this message. We cannot accept liability for any loss or damage caused by software viruses. The information contained in this communication may be confidential and may be subject to the attorney-client privilege. If you are the intended recipient and you do not wish to receive similar electronic messages from us in the future then please respond to the sender to this effect. Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of the Company.

>

> On Aug 8, 2016, at 10:15 AM, Richard Kahn < > wrote:

>>>

>> any updates?

>> thanks

>>

>>Richard Kahn

>>HRRK Associates Inc

AAAAAAAA ^ ^ ^ ^ >>>

EFTA00821732